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Saturday, June 24, 2006

Craft This

Aggro Note: If you're looking for Friday Humor, please scroll down. You don't want to miss this one. And yes, this counts as my Monday post even if it's Friday night.

So what is this post all about? Well, as part of our MMO Round Table, Moorgard, Blackguard and myself swore an infernal pact to comment on certain previously agreed upon topics without prior discussion or reading each others posts. We decided that midnight EDT would be an auspicious time for our simultaneous posting. So be sure to check out the posts on their sites as well (here and here).


Rumor has it that those two are waiting until 12:01 A.M. to fiendishly copy and paste this post. And ask yourself if they care enough about your mental well-being to provide hilarious cartoons to go along with their posts. Okay, so my comics are horrible and I didn't even want them to clutter up this page, but you will find links to them throughout. So, on with the subject of hand...

Is Crafting Necessary?

It depends. If you are going for a non-subscription, casual MMO meant to be played for an hour at a time, then perhaps resources would be better allocated elsewhere. But if you are trying to create a full, rich virtual world, then crafting can be a huge plus. It makes players feel like there are many options in the world and that it has more depth than it might otherwise. It can allow players who are not that fond of the core game mechanic, adventuring, to still have a place in the virtual world. Likewise, it allows those players who tire of that core mechanic to have other gameplay options while still remaining in the virtual world.

The truth is that many players have come to expect crafting in major, high production value titles. Now, if someone can come up with another game segment which provides the same benefits of providing gameplay options and increasing the depth of the world, then that's fine. But until that crafting alternative arises, crafting is a major plus.


Comic here.

So, how should crafting be implemented? Let's first look at how not to do crafting and then we can look at some solutions.

The Wrong Way

Crafting as Tedium

If you look for macros related to MMO's you will quickly find that the most common and best designed ones are related to crafting. Why is this? When a gameplay element is tedious, players will look for ways to circumvent it, even if it means breaking the rules. And crafting is certainly tedious. It is actually a black hole of tedium which sucks in all that is boring and from which no fun can ever escape. So it is not surprising that players use macros to circumvent this.

Also, what are computers good at? They are good at doing simple, repetitive tasks. And there you have crafting. If a macro can play your game, it is probably not a fun game. Now, some players will endure all that tedium, especially in a virtual world. But why make endurance of boredom a gameplay element?


Comic here.

Crafting in Groups

I understand some upcoming games seek to make crafting more fun by making crafting a group activity. I don't think this is the right way to go. Crafting is generally a solo activity. Note that I did not say it was a solitary activity. It certainly involves social interaction with other crafters and buyers. But it is hard enough to find a group to adventure with. Do you really want to find a group to harvest with?

Plus, remember that one of the stated purposes of crafting was to provide other options. If you are merely expanding the core gameplay to include crafting, you are not adding that option. If killing a level 7 orc by casting "fireball" is replaced by cutting down a level 7 tree by casting "saw wood," you may as well kill the orc. Because it's probably more fun.


Comic here.

Aggro Solutions (TM)

From the Ground Up

Harvesting is a rather tedious and predictable proposition. To improve it you can make it a more skill-based affair through either "twitch" type skills or strategic thinking.

Let's say you want to go the twitch route. Have players dodge through a cave-in in order to get to the ore they need. When cutting down a tree, replace the Progress Bar Snooze with a bar that moves at random speed. Require players to click at a certain point for power and accuracy. Have them finish by thrusting the mouse up in a straight line to represent the swing. All these factors would play into the quality and quantitiy of the items harvested.

But perhaps you feel "twitch" type skills are out of place in an MMO. I can understand that. In medieval times, hey, even in ancient times, no one harvested stone by walking around and mining random rocks on the ground. They built mines and quarries. So why not do the same in the virtual world?

Let's use the mine as an example. Allow players to purchase a mine which will be a special instance. Players can select from a wide range of employees to hire. Do you want expensive, skilled artisans? A crew of cheap ruffians? A mage trained in dowsing for minerals? All these choices will play a factor.

The mine will run even if you never visit it. But quality and quantity will suffer. To truly be successful, a player must visit and make decisions. Perhaps all of your employees hate your skilled foreman. Do you want to fire him and lose his skill or deal with an unhappy crew of workers. Decisions like this can play into factors like morale, teamwork, skill, and so on. You could eventually buy a larger mine with more workers.

When technology allows it, you could move these mines, forestry operations and farms out into the shared world space. Even with instances, these harvest operations would accomplish the dual goals of making harvesting more interesting and allowing players to have a feeling of ownership in the virtual world.

Comic here.

Crafting as Fun

I can go on the net and in a few minutes find cheaply made flash games which are more fun then crafting. So why not dedicate some time to making the process of crafting addictive and fun? Whether you want to include elements of twitch play, turn-based strategy or real time strategy, the key is to make things interactive and require player skill. Just take a look at my harvesting examples and apply them to crafting. Memory, reflex, sound recognition, spatial visualization, puzzle solving and strategy are just some of many elements that could make crafting a game and not a chore. Of course, you do not want to completely remove players from the world. You do not want to have them sit down at the forge and then Tetris pops up. But working great gameplay into the theme and feel of the world is merely a challenge and not a barrier.

Crafting as Art


This suggestion is more for the future and not for every game. But when:

* You buy a tapestry because you love the designs a certain player-artist creates and you would buy anything she made.

* When hanging your tapestry you find your home is too small and dark so you hire a player-architect to create an airier abode with wood tones you enjoy.

* You realize you need some money to pay for your new home and decide to go adventuring. You have a choice between two breastplates with equal stats. You buy the one that has the player-made design you prefer.

Then crafting will truly be art.

Now as I said, this will not work for every game. You may wish to control the art assets because you want to retain a certain theme and feel in your virtual world. But I think it could work in some games. If you want to start with baby steps you could allow players a selection of colors and patterns.


Comic here.

Tricky Questions

What about the inter-dependency of crafters and adventurers? You want one group to rely on the other, but not too much. It's merely a question of balance. And what about the desirability of crafted items as opposed to items received adventuring?

Let's take the example of a special sword. Since your main gameplay is adventuring, you really don't want that sword to be made by crafters. So what do you do?

* It may take a certain type of ore only available from difficult mobs to make the sword. Adventurers would then give this ore to crafters to make the sword.

* You gain the special sword by killing a dragon. A crafter can create a hilt for that sword. Now, by itself, this hilt may only give plus one to a few stats. Nothing special. But who wouldn't want to add that hilt on to their already fabulous sword?

Comic here.

74 Comments:

Anonymous Blackguard said...

Damn, I forgot to put comics in mine. :(

12:53 AM  
Anonymous Prognosticator said...

LoL, Aggro, you Pwned those other two n00bs.

Hehheh. Seriously, some of the things that were not covered much in any of the three articles are...

1. Are current crafting systems broken? People DO spend a ton of time doing them now, so maybe there isn't anything wrong. Of course the inclination to bot indicates that they may indeed be broken.

2. Does it harm these games if there isn't crafting? In cases like WoW, Guild Wars, DDO and Lineage2 I'd say, "Not a bit." In EQ, EQ2 and probably Vanguard I would say, "Yes, but I'd get over it."

3. Second Life isn't a game, but crafting is a core part of it and it is done exceptionally well. Why not combine the the game styles in some way? (See Entropia Universe for more information.)

4. Are those the best comic strips ever made? Answer: Yes, most likely.

3:01 AM  
Blogger Teh Chunt said...

Wow, I'm loving the comics. The crafting ideas are solid. I just want a way to make customized weapons, maybe where you can trace the design of a blade, or a symbol on a shield.

I always thought it would be cool to make a char named Gucci, and be a tailor. You would have to sell your bags for a few more gold then everyone else's, and label them "original Gucci". Would people pay more for a "brand name" bag? I wonder...

11:42 AM  
Anonymous Wizzel Cogcarrier Wizzleton IV said...

Prognosticator:

1. Cheaters are cheaters. The system is broken, just stupid.

2. /agree

3. Second Life is entirely a crafting system. Nothing even close to that --players modeling and coding every item in the game-- could be implemented in an MMO like EQ2.

4. Fanboi.

5:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What some people call tedium and boring other people enjoy.

I used to love the challenge of making deals with people to supply them spikes if they would make me some other items I couldnt make.
It added a huge level of immersion to EQ2.

Sadly as time has moved on SoE has dumbed the crafting system down to nothing more than a joke.

The pride that people used to take in being a high level crafter has been replaced with a system that might be good for the WoW generation of gamers who want everything now but is the complete opposite of what crafting was supposed to be in EQ2.

12:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Check out those other 2 posts by Blackguard and Moorguard, talk about towing the company line.

What would make a interesting article is the reasons why EQ2 abandoned their vision for crafting and copied the WOW forumla.

As for the rest about item centric etc, why does crafting have to be about adventurers?

The desperately under appreciated housing design aspect of EQ2 is a perfect example of where SoE has got it's priorities totally wrong with crafting.

I'm a tailor I want to design new clothes open a store. I need a carpenter to make the shelving in my new store. I need a alchemist to sell me fireworks for my grand opening of my store, and I need the woodworker to make the boards advertising my wares throughout the player created citys.

But fuck all that, bring on batch combines and that fantastic and not tedious point and click aspect, because thats what the kids want.

12:43 PM  
Anonymous Tipa said...

The WoW formula is to make the crafting easy but the harvesting hard. The EQ2 formula is to make the harvesting easy and the crafting hard.

They did make the crafting a lot easier, but they are still a fair bit from copying WoW.

Serious EQ2 crafters made alts to do the necessary subcombines. The market between people with subcombines evaporated a few months after EQ2 went live. Then you were faced on not being able to craft because you couldn't find someone to make subcombines at any price, or not crafting.

First they let alternate classes make non-primary combines with difficulty. After that, why not eliminate them? And they did.

I don't have a problem with it.

7:27 PM  
Anonymous Littlelisa said...

I love the wizard plush and the alligator lol. Very cute =]

Generally crafting in a MMOG is always tedious. I loved EQ2's crafting but I'm a hardcore crafter. So some people don't like crafting and think of it as nothing but tedium. Then crafting may not be for them. But I enjoy crafting something great and then looking at it finished with my name brand on it. I love to see people enjoying my crafts. I appreciate everyone who buys my stuff.

With that said, crafting is not for everyone. I wish the devs would have stuck with their original idea in putting batch refines. I think that would be a better balanced middle rather then going from one extreme to another.

EQ2 Rocks! =D

12:04 AM  
Anonymous Ashlian said...

I do think EQ2 could have really had an edge on WoW if the housing had incorporated more of the design elements that encouraged a thriving social aspect to SWG. While I didn't play SWG much myself, I had a lot of friends who did, and they raved over things like the housing, the clothing, and the million and one dance moves. WoW completely neglects a social aspect....EQ2 could have cornered the market.

Among my friends and guildies, I'm the housing nut. I had five cedar barstools well before my fury could use a cedar weapon. They used to groan when I'd harvest another rare that could be used for furniture because furniture always won over little things like armor or weapons. But we were stuck with some very nice single pieces like chairs or bookcases and rugs that matched nothing else and designs that were retreaded across tiers with just a retint done. Given the amount of fine art I see traveling across Norrath, to have it not released for player housing is just sad. The new tier 6 rare recipes are a BIG step in the right direction, but ALL THE TIERS should look like that, and have as many recipes! I hope they're all revamped to that amount of content. It should have been there to begin with. This goes for armor, too, but I know that has to wait on the model revamp.

I'm not a fangirl, but I usually do attempt to see the SOE side of things. In this case, they dropped the ball on what could have been a very big selling point for them. It's not too late to make it a continuing selling point, though. I have more hope than I have in a long time. And the Adventure Pack furniture is just.....I have no words, it's gorgeous. The key to making crafting successful is not just in giving crafters enjoyable crafting experiences, but to give those of us who just purchase stuff things we really want! Like complete matching suites of furniture such as we see in ANY NPC HOME OR DUNGEON! What, we can't shop at Qeynos Rooms or Freeport Torture Chambers to Go?

4:16 PM  
Blogger David said...

To this day I honestly believe SWG had the best crafting system ever. Adventurer's rely'd heavily on crafters to make them their goods, while crafters relied heavily on adventurer's to retrieve special components to make the ultimate gear. Not to mention crafter's paying for protection while setting up mining operations on the more difficult planets.

Right now I'm waiting patiently for the SWG emulator's to go live so that I can play a Pre-CU era and rebuild my crafting empire. The only thing I found tedius about crafting in SWG was leveling up the skills... but to be perfectly honest I found leveling up the skills in WoW to be WAY more tedius, not to mention the crafting professions are almost completely useless in that game. Most of the items you would want to craft are Bind on Pickup, meaning you have ot first have the skill, then you have to find the design/plans to make the item, then you have to find the uber rare item required to make the item you want.

Through all this process I've found that 9 times out of 10 I've gotten a better item from a loot drop before I can craft the ones I wanted in the first place.

Actually, the only crafting Bliz did right in WoW is enchanting and Jewelcrafting. Allowing enchants and buffs to be added to items. Mining/Herbalism/Fishing/Skinning are mostly tedius time wasters. I say this because of the way Bliz put in quests. I could get more money per hour from quests(dailies or regular) then from any of the gathering skills. All this means is that it's litterally more efficient for me to quest and buy what I want, then to spend the time collecting what I want.

Needless to say, I'm waiting for a game to come out with a complex crafting system. I have no problem with uber weapons being obtainable through quests/mob drops, but I personally believe people should be able to get involved in the crafting end of the game just as much as the adventurer's can get involved in the adventuring part of the game.

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